Even with road improvements, you are adding a third throttle point to a very messy traffic area. you can email the mayor at: firstname.lastname@example.org and let her know what committee you would be interested in. They are welcome to come as a neighbor and give their opinion but they have no power of approving/disapproving this project. That in itself is and should be an affront to all who value his efforts on behalf of Hackettstown. It's a Jersey thing. I feel for you Darrin...There will be gas tankers and deliveries by tractor trailers. Below is a link to the town roster. Look at your property values, people. Well, makes sense if we really need to add another convenience/gas station to the growing list in town. (that whole street) Shacks!! What did the planning board discuss tonight? But I don't think, based on that lovely CVS, that you won. To me they are exhibiting complete disregard for our town variance procedure and not dignifying our zoning board authority if they are boasting a done deal. I can't think of a worst place to put it The driver on the right yields to the driver on the left. Avenue. They purchased them with the intent to demolish, so they have not been well-maintained for some time. Bonv - I agree. “Jim can you explain to me and probably others why Quickchek Corporate say they have the land and everything was approved” Lincoln's log cabin vs the town's post master general's house I believe was the example used. I commend the person who put a flier into our mailbox to help get folks involved regarding the QC meetings and has done a great job and making people care. It would be nice to have an option en route to many of my late night deliveries. congrats everyone! It is a fixed asset. My sister in law lives in a historic district in Boston and God forbid her grass gets too long or there is a tiny piece of peeling paint on the facia! This project was always bad for residents of Hackettstown - that location will be a nightmare for anyone traveling up and down Mountain Ave. No one says anything. Sorry about yesterday wasn't feeling good but I'll be at Bagels abroad today from 4 o'clock this afternoon till 5 this afternoon. Actually any historic district covenants would be a step forward for having a historic district to begin with. It has been mentioned that this project will ONLY be put through the zoning board, if it is approved by the zoning board, it WILL be built as such While a petition is good, people showing up at the meeting to voice their personal concerns is even better. The appointment part does make it sound like it's all about politics - that's really a shame & doesn't bode well for this project and many others. The homeowner has been allowed time and time again to trash historical properties and has now exposed that the historical ordinance is useless. It's a super convenience store with fueling or arrivederci. Oh I have no delusions, the bulk of the space will be developed as commercial and ultimately I have no problem with that - good car wash which I hear is also in the mix, sure, not the best, but better than a gas station. Yes, it will be a long fight. It was approved this spring and they hoped to begin construction in October with it being ready to open by June 2018. Protections like this need to be put in writing, or at the VERY LEAST on public record via conversation at the meeting (they are recorded). The fuel/gas may be more difficult to figure out there....but WHY put this store where it's already lots of traffic/people walking/crossing/school/pool - not a good solution when so many vacant stores in H-town. Without rezoning on Washington I don't think QC can build their mega-store/gas station. Sounds harsh. Traffic - The current intersection is already chaotic, at best. Quite frankly, if they are not knocked down soon, they look like they will fall down. If anyone's interested in signs let me know. The owner has also removed all the fencing and sheds on the properties. Only the exterior is considered from what they testified so if vinyl siding went up it would hide the workmanship of the original exterior Have your Questions ready - make sure they are based on actual testimony, not your opinion (that's later) - If you have a question about anything in the actual Plan, this is your time. Shameful in my opinion. Because right now, their constituency is wincing.......I believe you mean zoning board, being they are the board hearing this case. The vehicle's wheels should be turned to the left. I thought they were just handling the variances and if they voted yes on them then the site plan would go before the planning board but was told last night that zoning is handling everything. As an aside I attended the Historical Society/Board meeting in November where the attorney's presented the plans and argued for the industrial expansion. Time to stop talking and start building. I've checked the town web page and all they have is a schedule of meetings...am I missing something? So, even if I go into a meeting on behalf of Aunt Bertha, who is homebound and cannot make it to a meeting, they never hear what she has to say? They were beat up and their features have been changed so much over time that there was nothing original about them. Just another Quickchek? If anyone is interested in signs for the lawns please let me know. auntiel, 8. To me this is just another way for this owner to put more money in their pockets, because they sure don't care about the town. I did some research today regarding the Historic Commission however I was unable to find anything in the town code or website. Well unilever has a political agenda then - go to their website, Good reminder, Greg. OLD BUSINESS Infogirl, it was not really meant to be a viable idea, but rather just saying that that side is a much better fit than the proposed area!! I have served on the Parking Authority or over 10 yrs. I agree Darrin, Stranger and ianimal. Have to wonder, how much ice cream is purchased with WIC ? No boards, the “peoples” expert. Also, what is the actual difference between a house that happens to be in the "mapped out" historic "district" and/or an actual "historic house?" @scottso, curious where you heard that Quick Check walked away. Several were owned by doctors, who rented them out to welfare non-working people. Goodluck!!!! As discussed at last night's public Land Use meeting the DOT has presented their recommendation and requirements to QC. It's what goes on behind the scenes that is concerning. I finally found a map of the Historic District as it was in 1988. 4. "The proposed building isn't on Washington." Drive by Washington's stores at night and take notice. It’s up to you to know how and where you do your best work. I think we agree. H-town has only so much residential; residential space will not grow, except vertically, and that's another story (that's a good one, right?). FYI, it was brought up last night at the Planning board meeting that they will not be reviewing the quick check application. I will work on it and publish by the weekend. Right now they are before the zoning board as they are asking for the 2 homes in Washington that are in a residential zone to be refined for commercial. Paftinos pays $3.5 mill and hopes to get $4 mill in return, turn his back, and walk away. happiest girl - this is all part of the application process - they passed the historic hurdle, last night heard that they received highlands approval -- all of this testimony leads up to the application vote at some point in time, which includes the variance - next meeting in February has additional traffic testimony. like is it up for debate or no? So not sure if WaWa will have representation there but we will aleast see what the site plan will look like. But new owners would be apprised of the "costs' of buying into the historic district and must comply, as a point of law, with the covenants. It is comprised of actions and attitudes associated with democratic governance and social participation. Most are 150 year old homes that owners have let get into a state of disrepair (some on purpose). The few feet the town would need would not make the QC property unusable, just a few feet narrower - so something else could be built there that would cause less traffic than a convenience store. Also, the HHS athletic field is in close proximity of the proposed gas station. 1. There's also the Hackettstown Main Street Commercial Historic District starting at David's and ending at the train tracks. Top-notch tools. Of course the way the roads join each other, split up and join and or rejoin others around here is almost a nightmare, especially since you can technically use more than one title to address a particular road area in many cases. without another usage variance, unless from an outside vending machine for the drinks, etc. I do believe our council and Mayor are working in the best interest of the town. I did not mean to call you out as such, you are always very good at explaining procedures and are very good at interpretation to what happens at these meetings. Fair consideration for displaced current renters should also be in the proposal. What an eye sore. What is your back ground? The vehicle's wheels should be turned outward. I do not understand how a gas station in middle of residents is just plain against our town's zoning code, seems like a sure way of pissing off residents to not protect them from such a occurrence. If anything it will give some rush hour commuters a quick place to stop haha not mention, if more people just turned before the light on mountain ave they could easily avoid the traffic that's currently over there. I appreciate the need to have vital businesses in town to spur on economic growth, but this proposal does far more harm than good at that location. In my opinion. This was always bad, the town should've done better but the reasons they didn't are as old as time... politics & "friendships". Once again I agree Dman, kind of. All Agenda items are being carried to the April 17, 2018 Meeting, at 7:00 p.m. Which was the goal anyway. BUT those 15 homes could be replaced by about 40 attractive row houses (not apt. The mayor? Without that kind of support from a large group of H-town citizens, you will not win. The fact that she took the time to write a letter vs come up to the mic and voice her opinion off the cuff doesn't change the fact that there is a proper procedure that needs to be followed and she will have the time to read, hand out her letter. all roads lead to the mayor, her political allies and close supporters. 517. AGENDA Individualism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology and social outlook that emphasizes the moral worth of the individual. OK folks --- here it is; all the power you need in the hands of five Historic Preservation Commission.....here are the rules, such that they are: http://www.hackettstown.net/land-development-code/ dss, @2020 - they're still on the agenda and almost to the finish line so I couldn't imagine them pulling it. Did the solar eclipse change the world? No they will find another tax. It’s a great location fir them; for us —- I’m granding to washington to avoid the whole thing. Good point bug3. Trekster - good points. and btw Lili - often section 8 people work at minimum wage jobs - and not always by choice - and can't pay a rent without some help - maybe they should be homeless??? The Wawa is going by Appleby in the back lot. There is one for yes going around. He had John Stout and Tom Scott appointed, who both have made it know that they are for this project. Just trying to give this discussion a positive spin and people in town food for thought - no matter what happens, the empty space will be filled with something, it will be developed, but wanted people to think outside the box (store) and come up with ideas that maybe the property owner, zoning, neighborhood and town can get behind and support. I often wonder if they drag out on purpose so that public has less time to speak and so that by the time public does speak nobody wants to listen. There's your history of possible success. I'd also be in favor of widening the intersection on the Willow Grove side by tearing out that abandoned red structure and shortening the Speedway apron to allow for a dedicated right hand lane. And it's not nimby per se, even down 1 block say where the Al's Dry cleaners is would be a great spot or even where the Salvation Army store would be better. It enhances nothing. That's a good point; Sounds like the current tax code: complicate it so much it's too tiring to even try to keep up with, so everyone just goes along. So...is that better than a QC? The strip mall behind it is what had me confused. I could see where Walmart might not want to make Target more accessible. Greg I’m going off the 2018 schedule that is on the website. Quickchek had for months been trying to get approval to build a store and gas station at the intersection of Bells Lane and Mountain Ave. across from their current store. No one on this forum has a reason not to be there at the meeting. I encourage folks to attend the next meeting February 21st. The existing Quick Chek small store on the other side of the road fits the area. It’s a long hard fight, but it is certainly possible, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise! that "long" fight is nearing its end. A sad day in Hackettstown. https://patch.com/new-jersey/hackettstown/quick-check-mountatin-ave-project-update. Ugh. Does anyone seriously believe that the ~1 mile radius will support 5 gas stations? I started the petition but haven't had a chance to proof read/edit it. the last one was done in '08 I mean unless this guy bought with covenants in place, why should he maintain them to some vague notion of historic, much less maintain to an exact historic restoration level? This man is really showing his true colors on how he feels about this town, but then again, he doesn't even live in town! they are going elsewhere. People are losing their homes so QC can sell more stuff in an area where they already have 3 locations. There may well be no fallout from his appointment, which I hope to be true. Ultimately the historical society did not have a quorum in attendance. So let me get this straight, the owner has begun taking down trees but has yet to get the zoning variance, interesting to say the least. I really DO NOT know who is actually adding the money to our accounts but I looked at my payment activity and it stated that I was paid $300 on 9/25/2020. no way houses should come down for a quick chek and I love quick chek, I'm there pretty much everyday. Check the posts above - all the Wawa questions were previously answered. Technically there has yet to be a First Meeting. Of course that would apply only if the people that lived there owned the properties rather than a multiple property landowner owning them. The rest is poppycock. What was the outcome of the variance application? Just based on the current existing laws, and the state of our historic ordinance, the board had no choice and they made the correct decision. You can't see all angles backing out of the place and you take a gamble everytime you back out of a spot. (I'm sure you meant that :>). Sunshine Act There is a Quick Chek right on the corner already and it has lights, open 24 hrs, has traffic etc. It will be a nightmare for Washington St as even more people try to avoid Mt. It's near the school(s) providing an "attractive nuisance" for those environments. Did they give out copies of Quick Chek's "evaluation report" on the historical significance, or as I'm sure they put it "lack" of same of these properties? That area is very dangerous for travel how it is, along with the congestion during peak times. i. Approval of minutes – September 19, 2017 Seenit - Make your own basketball court. 2 are in a residential district. Annoying we have to choice as both are major meeting that effect us in different ways. IOW, the gas traffic already passes through the area. I have watched it go from a small country town to a busy little city and it's sad. Unless they have been completely gutted and redone, there would have to be major elements of the original design, materials and workmanship remaining, such as pocket doors, moldings, original window frames (at least on the inside). AGENDA "Lots of traffic/people walking/crossing/school/pool" is exactly what a convenience store wants. But, like you said, it's hard work, hard fight, and rolling your own is harder than getting a gunslinger and cost is cost, whether time or money. New Business They seem to not have a regard for safety in my opinion. Basically a cheerleader for the company. His name has slipped my mine at the moment but its great we are now full with members. Sure it would be tough, tough as straightening out Schooley's Mountain overpass. If they never noticed for February then yes they will for March. The same person who's selling it to Quick Check for a quick buck. Or are we just creating additional problems and costs that the town will have to cover? meets the 3rd Thursday of each month You're right - I do not like this project - primarily because of the gas station component. But don't change the zoning. 46). Looking at my notes from the December meeting, the start time and location for this meeting was set at 7:00 PM at the municipal building. I hope I’m right too Bonv as I went to the BOE meeting. His father was certainly a different person than him, that's for sure! I wouldn't hold your breath. An important issue is the determination regarding the homes to be razed as related to their historical importance / status. January 17th at 7:30PM -- Municipal Building Animal lover, I'd like to read their position on the status of the project. Do They? 11. To me, what I would like to hear, is how QC will bend over backwards, and invest accordingly, to make this work next to our Hackettstown Historic District if we were to grant this variance to build this commercial concern basically in our historic district. Because it's not federal and I don't think it's state registered, if their is such a thing. They were proposing a small city including schools, houses, a church and dormitories, all for their people. So again I would say way too early to call it a done deal. The new location on Mt Ave and Washington St will be a Traffic nightmare!! Please note, I am under no delusion that the space will be occupied by some commercial operation, but consideration for the existing neighborhood needs to be applied to make a sound decision for the future of our town. Good Luck, I thought only Democrats do that. Wouldn't NJDOT be also reviewing the QuickChek application for impacts on this state road? Bonv, let us know what you find out...trying to come. As a tax payer in this town it is frustrating to have to choose. And also, who is the "public" They're the ones who volunteered to be on the board when we have such a hard time filling the positions. But, will the taxpayers get anything except another place to spend more of our money? "they are playing games with you to suppress your voice, that shows me that they are already leaning towards granting approvals for the variances." (3) The appearance of impropriety on this project is partly because of the rumors about "back room" decisions/deals already made on this particular property. Property values of homeowners on Washington Street will plummet. At the time there were some proposed increases in the district as per the 1983 "Standards & Guidelines" for Historic Preservation as shown in this picture. So it is now up to QC to accept that requirement or go back to the DOT and argue for it. I know the streets don't form a perfect grid but if you draw a box out on a map Those judges just interpret the existing law. No date but some details : There is no "closed session" so I'm not sure what you are referring to. Do you know if there is an actual map of the historic district? Not a chance. There has been nothing done to those house to keep them in better condition since this has been the current owners plan for many years now. OFFICE HOURS. Mr. Pennington asked what was on a lot of our minds. It was shot down - not happening....they wanted to move the Quick Check on Mt Ave across the street to the old monument lot and the houses up the the line with a gas station and store like up on 517. I also agree that the location on that corner is not the best choice. The text description posted in SD's link leaves room for interpretation, thanks. In other words, what level of historic association is needed before the property is considered "important enough" not to tear down and lose? After testimony from the property owner expert, extensive community testimony both pro and con regarding the project, as well as response from the applicant, the zoning board voted to approve the demolishing of the 5 homes with a condition. 1. Ave. side - catchy name like 'Carriage House Brewery' how cool would that be? Those letters are not about agenda items they are more like " I want to thank the board..." or "there is an event coming up that I want to let you know about.." They are not opinions about agenda items. The Quick Chek proposal is in the worst possible location as we all know. Jeff Saunders (Class A)……………....……………………. Besides the problems at David's Country Inn, that were discussed earlier in the thread, I hate the backup at the light on Rt 57 by the old Golden Skillet. We just had another member appointed and he is from the Brewery store. Is it “part of the plan” Environmental - Seepage of gasoline, either as a result of tank failures or delivery spills contaminating adjacent ground. They needed to skip the January meeting so this is a continuation from the December 19th meeting. Zoning Board, Planning Board, Local Government in general; I would argue..NO you dont! And who, in town government, invited Mr Paftino to fill that spot? Even at the fringes. Roadblocks at every opportunity. That Mountain Ave is going to be pretty built up. Were any of those buildings cited for hazards, since I believe that owner was the slumlord landlord (from what I read) who got in trouble with the law? If the answer is a NO, then the project should be a NO given our town's guidelines. "Mood" lighting? Does anyone have information about how to sign it? That also is right next to a gas station with only a fence separating it. The property owner of the current QC will deed land to the town in order to accommodate this. Just share that. Meetings Act. QC still has to complete its presentation. But I am certain most folks did not recall the entire presentation to be able to engage in a meaningful manner. Seems to be a bit ad hoc to me. These positions are so hard to fill. Heck let the pavement, commercial development, and degradation of the area bulldoze into the neighborhood like a tidal wave. Question of the night: However all of the residents with a second story would clearly have a beautiful view of the entire site.How horrible. They have a month to figure out if they should move the meeting to a bigger room now that they know the expected size of the audience. The condition being that they cannot be demolished until a site plan for a replacement structure is approved. (2) IMO it's definitely past time to discuss why we don't make being a town resident part of the requirements for all posts. Quality of Life - There are several quality of life issues that would impact the current homes directly adjacent to the property. Or just search "no quick check in hackettstown." That area will never be the same and as mentioned before the practice of removing homes for commercial development could become common place here in town. On a wet road surface starting at about 50 mph. The way Grand Ave backs up is dangerous. The owner of Zanes feels that car wash is worth in the seven figures. Bueller. When at they starting. They did not require or recommend a traffic light at that intersection. Check his blind spot before moving and then use his mirror while backing up slowly. Just want to make sure everyone is aware that the Aug 15th Zoning Board meeting is being moved to a larger location . Jim, people have a smell to it, because things like this can lead to other situations, let's not put the blinders on and play stupid here. and can we voice our opposition at the meeting on the 17th? When is the next "meeting" on that? thank you SD for bringing logic back to this. Zoning variances will be the best argument - hard to believe that we're potentially talking about 5 gas stations in ~1 mile radius. Yet you do need to know the town rules; lucky JL seems to have a leg up on that one. GC Caving in to a (familiar) developer and or his legal team is unacceptable and simply a cop out. I've been saying this for ages. If J.C. Welch Carriage Factory still existed on Washington, this would all be moot I would imagine. Anyone who purchased ahead of the HD creation would be grandfathered most likely. I'll be there on Sunday. The time for submitting testimony comes after they've finished. The additions were made and that should be the current area, unless it has been readjusted during the interim. Then the fate of the 2 homes on Washington will be decided by the zoning variance. WIFM --- as in what's in it for me --- to give up what was clearly stated to the owner of these properties before they purchased them. The minutes should be available as should plans which they presented at the meeting - the station/store appear bigger than the one on 517. Thanks for the link trekster3, signed and sent to friends. Common sense. they cannot be less restrictive. another argument he made was that the "setting" of these building has changed over time and therefore they were historical . Without reciting chapter and verse from the Municipal Land Use Law and the NJSC Medici v. BPR decision, rest assured that this type of application has a very high standard for burden of proof that applicants are required to meet in order for the Board to even consider approving it. JL --- that's our point. Empty vessels make the most noise. THIS is where your opinion and commentary with any objections or support, including Historic has relevance. To say I'm disappointed by the turnout is an understatement - there were maybe 5 townspeople there to hear the testimony on traffic and building design. - new convenient hang out place for school kids from both schools I also posted the link to this thread on the facebook page. But again, all the rest of us have is the definition of historic district and does that really mean anything besides some pretty, pretty words. They bought their houses in a residential neighborhood, zoned as residential, with other houses separating them from busy businesses. Also, why do we need another gas station on that road. Well first things first, the fate of the 5 homes has to be determined first. Will result in a fine of $200-$500 and possible jail time. justintime, Varos bought those properties from Sandu after the link you referenced. IMHO! Here's the listing: http://www.nj.gov/dep/hpo/1identify/nrsr_lists/Warren.pdf Laws by their nature are a minimum set of rules that must be obeyed, morals can be more restrictive (but unless they are willing to break the law.) I would fight for a design modification that looks more "historical." The WaWa's application will be formally submitted at the May Planning Board meeting. Or....is it because you are “planning” on tearing it down anyways....so why put money into it? Making a right out of Bells Lane is hard enough how it is now. The school doesn't need to approve this. Oh That's right Bonv. I don't think the ship has sailed completely but if Washington St is rezoned then it will be the end because why just stop at the bottom of the hill. Something very yucky two houses basically screw what exists there now we want a larger on! Down, it would be unsafe to put such a thing April 18th their... 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